Supernatural
Aug. 5th, 2011 11:11 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gwaevalarinI think some people may be getting a wrong impression regarding my feelings towards Supernatural at the moment. I think some people may be getting a wrong impression regarding the entire Castiel (and Cas/Dean) part of the fandom, but I can only speak for myself, and I want to make a few things clear here:
Most importantly: I love this show.
I may be ranting and worrying and complaining a lot lately. I wouldn't do that if I didn't care.
Equally important: I still love Sam and Dean. Maybe not as much as I love Cas and Balthazar and Gabriel and (hate-love) Crowley, but of course I love them. I don't think it's possible to watch this show if you don't.
I also firmly believe that this show, in its core, has always been, will always be, and should always be about these two brothers. They are the heart and soul of Supernatural, and I don't think anyone could possibly doubt that.
BUT it can't be only about them. These two characters need other characters to interact with, to make their universe come to life. The two most important other characters - John and Mary aside - who form their family, are Bobby and Castiel. These two are, in my eyes, an integral part of the show. They are important to the boys and to the show. And they deserve to be treated that way.
I've read several times on tumblr how "the Castiel fandom wants this show to be just about him". This is complete and utter nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. What I want is the show to treat Castiel as the important character, and the important part of the boys' life that he has proven to be over the last three years. What I want is the show to acknowledge him as this important character and not use him as a cheap plot devise.
And here is another very important thing: The way Castiel's storyline is going right now - and no, we don't know for sure what is going to happen, but we are getting quite a few hints, and this theme already started very early in season 6 - doesn't only affect Cas, it also reflects on Sam and Dean.
Sam and Dean love each other more than anything and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are also both broken, and fucked up and co-dependent to a more than unhealthy degree, and again, I wouldn't really have it any other way, because that's what makes them interesting. But underneath all this, they have always been heroes in their own way. They made mistakes, they sometimes chose questionable paths, they lost people, but they cared. That's what always made them sympathetic characters, that they tried and that they cared. And then season 6 came along, and Cas was fighting his civil war in Heaven, trying to stop Raphael from restarting the Apocalypse - and yes, Cas too made mistakes and very questionable decisions, but he cared - and to me it felt like everytime Dean called him, the general tenor was:
Cas: "I'm fighting a civil war in Heaven trying to save what we - you and me - fought for."
Dean: "Fuck that, I don't care! There is something wrong with Sam. That's more important."
It's okay that Dean worried about Sam, and wanted him fixed more than anything. But he did it at the potential cost of the entire world burning, and he acted like that didn't matter - until it was too late. And that is not the Winchester boys I love. The Winchester boys I love would do everything for each other and sacrifice themselves for each other, but not at the cost of other people suffering the consequences.
Another thing I feel needs to be said: Characters, even important ones sometimes leave a story for the sake of the story and their own storyline. They might continue their own story somewhere else, in Supernatural it usually means that they die - and when I say "die" I mean the ones who die and do not just come back. And when I say "important characters", I mean the ones who have been in more than one episode, who stole our hearts, and left their signature on the show and Sam and Dean's life.
The important thing is how they leave.
Take Gabriel for example. I love him, and I hated to see him go. But I also feel that he got the ending he deserved. He stood up for what he believed in and died tragically but heroically, and true to his character. And while I miss him terribly, that is the reason why I don't think I want him to return. Because I'm afraid it would ruin his perfect exit. Same goes for Ellen and Jo.
Then there are character deaths that weren't exceptional, but still acceptable and true to the characters, like Bela - who, in case you don't know, I liked a lot - or Andy.
And then there are character deaths that are unnecessary and just nowhere near what the character deserved, like what happened to Balthazar. Had he died trying to save Cas, I would have been a sobbing mess, but it would have been okay in the end. I can even come up with scenarios where Castiel kills Balthazar that would have been acceptable. But not the way it was done, and certainly not without showing us his burnt wings, and without giving Castiel at least a moment to really grieve the death of the angel who was his best friend for millennia. Not without Balthazar's death having at least some impact on Castiel's storyline, and if it's only a moment of hesitation before opening Purgatory. Not like this.
And what I'm afraid of most right now, is that Castiel will leave the show in a way that is even worse than the way I lost Balthazar.
And last but not least: I pretty much only talk about how I want Castiel to be okay and Balthazar to come back because they are the characters I care most about, but I understand every other part of this fandom who is fighting for their beloved characters, whether I like them or not.
Even though I personally am in two minds about this, l feel for the Gabriel fandom who want their angel back - and who were given false hope at the beginning of season 6.
I feel most for those people in the fandom who love Adam. Sam and Dean might not have known him too long but he is their brother. And while family doesn't end with blood, blood is still family. Not to mention that he is an innocent who was dragged into this fight, and who is now locked into the deepest pits of hell with Lucifer and Michael, suffering the same way Sam did down there, but for so much longer. And Sam and Dean don't even so much as mention him, let alone try to save him, which reflects on them in a similar way their treatment of Cas and the situation in Heaven does.
I'm not fighting the fights for these characters, but what I won't ever do is tell the people who do that their favourite characters don't matter, or that they aren't "real fans". All these characters are important parts of Sam and Dean's world in their own way. And if there are people out there who love them then they have every right to fight for them just like I fight for my angels.
And here is another very important reason why - despite everything - I won't leave anytime soon: I love this fandom and I love the cast (and, most of the time, the crew)
This fandom, with all its wank and fighting, still is a big family. An most of the people I know support each other, and respect each other's opinion. There are quite a few black sheep, and that can hurt, but at the end of the day, most of you - and certainly everyone on my flist - are the most insane-in-a-good-way, creative, passionate, kind, unique bunch of people I've ever met. And even if the show should go downhill completely, I wouldn't leave because I don't want to leave YOU.
And this crazy, big family includes a lot of the actors, and quite a few of the writers, directors and other people working on the show. I don't think there is any other fandom where the actors are that involved and care that much. Be it Twitter, or cons, or insiders they send our way in interviews. They are just as completely insane as we are, and they never fail to brighten up my day.
I feel like I have found my home. Maybe we will move on one day, maybe we will go our separate ways at some point, maybe we will meet again in a different fandom. But for now, you are my family and this show is my home.
And this is exactly why I still love this show with all my heart. And this is equally why I worry and complain so much when I feel that things go terribly wrong. Because I care.
See a theme here?
ETA: Spoilers in the comments. You've been warned
Most importantly: I love this show.
I may be ranting and worrying and complaining a lot lately. I wouldn't do that if I didn't care.
Equally important: I still love Sam and Dean. Maybe not as much as I love Cas and Balthazar and Gabriel and (hate-love) Crowley, but of course I love them. I don't think it's possible to watch this show if you don't.
I also firmly believe that this show, in its core, has always been, will always be, and should always be about these two brothers. They are the heart and soul of Supernatural, and I don't think anyone could possibly doubt that.
BUT it can't be only about them. These two characters need other characters to interact with, to make their universe come to life. The two most important other characters - John and Mary aside - who form their family, are Bobby and Castiel. These two are, in my eyes, an integral part of the show. They are important to the boys and to the show. And they deserve to be treated that way.
I've read several times on tumblr how "the Castiel fandom wants this show to be just about him". This is complete and utter nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. What I want is the show to treat Castiel as the important character, and the important part of the boys' life that he has proven to be over the last three years. What I want is the show to acknowledge him as this important character and not use him as a cheap plot devise.
And here is another very important thing: The way Castiel's storyline is going right now - and no, we don't know for sure what is going to happen, but we are getting quite a few hints, and this theme already started very early in season 6 - doesn't only affect Cas, it also reflects on Sam and Dean.
Sam and Dean love each other more than anything and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are also both broken, and fucked up and co-dependent to a more than unhealthy degree, and again, I wouldn't really have it any other way, because that's what makes them interesting. But underneath all this, they have always been heroes in their own way. They made mistakes, they sometimes chose questionable paths, they lost people, but they cared. That's what always made them sympathetic characters, that they tried and that they cared. And then season 6 came along, and Cas was fighting his civil war in Heaven, trying to stop Raphael from restarting the Apocalypse - and yes, Cas too made mistakes and very questionable decisions, but he cared - and to me it felt like everytime Dean called him, the general tenor was:
Cas: "I'm fighting a civil war in Heaven trying to save what we - you and me - fought for."
Dean: "Fuck that, I don't care! There is something wrong with Sam. That's more important."
It's okay that Dean worried about Sam, and wanted him fixed more than anything. But he did it at the potential cost of the entire world burning, and he acted like that didn't matter - until it was too late. And that is not the Winchester boys I love. The Winchester boys I love would do everything for each other and sacrifice themselves for each other, but not at the cost of other people suffering the consequences.
Another thing I feel needs to be said: Characters, even important ones sometimes leave a story for the sake of the story and their own storyline. They might continue their own story somewhere else, in Supernatural it usually means that they die - and when I say "die" I mean the ones who die and do not just come back. And when I say "important characters", I mean the ones who have been in more than one episode, who stole our hearts, and left their signature on the show and Sam and Dean's life.
The important thing is how they leave.
Take Gabriel for example. I love him, and I hated to see him go. But I also feel that he got the ending he deserved. He stood up for what he believed in and died tragically but heroically, and true to his character. And while I miss him terribly, that is the reason why I don't think I want him to return. Because I'm afraid it would ruin his perfect exit. Same goes for Ellen and Jo.
Then there are character deaths that weren't exceptional, but still acceptable and true to the characters, like Bela - who, in case you don't know, I liked a lot - or Andy.
And then there are character deaths that are unnecessary and just nowhere near what the character deserved, like what happened to Balthazar. Had he died trying to save Cas, I would have been a sobbing mess, but it would have been okay in the end. I can even come up with scenarios where Castiel kills Balthazar that would have been acceptable. But not the way it was done, and certainly not without showing us his burnt wings, and without giving Castiel at least a moment to really grieve the death of the angel who was his best friend for millennia. Not without Balthazar's death having at least some impact on Castiel's storyline, and if it's only a moment of hesitation before opening Purgatory. Not like this.
And what I'm afraid of most right now, is that Castiel will leave the show in a way that is even worse than the way I lost Balthazar.
And last but not least: I pretty much only talk about how I want Castiel to be okay and Balthazar to come back because they are the characters I care most about, but I understand every other part of this fandom who is fighting for their beloved characters, whether I like them or not.
Even though I personally am in two minds about this, l feel for the Gabriel fandom who want their angel back - and who were given false hope at the beginning of season 6.
I feel most for those people in the fandom who love Adam. Sam and Dean might not have known him too long but he is their brother. And while family doesn't end with blood, blood is still family. Not to mention that he is an innocent who was dragged into this fight, and who is now locked into the deepest pits of hell with Lucifer and Michael, suffering the same way Sam did down there, but for so much longer. And Sam and Dean don't even so much as mention him, let alone try to save him, which reflects on them in a similar way their treatment of Cas and the situation in Heaven does.
I'm not fighting the fights for these characters, but what I won't ever do is tell the people who do that their favourite characters don't matter, or that they aren't "real fans". All these characters are important parts of Sam and Dean's world in their own way. And if there are people out there who love them then they have every right to fight for them just like I fight for my angels.
And here is another very important reason why - despite everything - I won't leave anytime soon: I love this fandom and I love the cast (and, most of the time, the crew)
This fandom, with all its wank and fighting, still is a big family. An most of the people I know support each other, and respect each other's opinion. There are quite a few black sheep, and that can hurt, but at the end of the day, most of you - and certainly everyone on my flist - are the most insane-in-a-good-way, creative, passionate, kind, unique bunch of people I've ever met. And even if the show should go downhill completely, I wouldn't leave because I don't want to leave YOU.
And this crazy, big family includes a lot of the actors, and quite a few of the writers, directors and other people working on the show. I don't think there is any other fandom where the actors are that involved and care that much. Be it Twitter, or cons, or insiders they send our way in interviews. They are just as completely insane as we are, and they never fail to brighten up my day.
I feel like I have found my home. Maybe we will move on one day, maybe we will go our separate ways at some point, maybe we will meet again in a different fandom. But for now, you are my family and this show is my home.
And this is exactly why I still love this show with all my heart. And this is equally why I worry and complain so much when I feel that things go terribly wrong. Because I care.
See a theme here?
ETA: Spoilers in the comments. You've been warned
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 10:21 am (UTC)I hate this so much for many reasons, but I think you're wrong about Bal's death not having an impact on Castiel's storyline. It DID have an impact... it was just a non-impact. His death was the way it was PRECISELY to show that Castiel felt nothing about it, to show Cas had cut himself off from everyone he cared about, everyone who cared about HIM, in order to focus on his mission. It was to show how far Cas had fallen, how far the misunderstandings and miscommunications had pushed him.
Was it too far?
Maybe.
But it's there and we have to deal with it now :( So I will forever believe Bal WAS being somewhat heroic in that scene. He was being heroic JUST BY BEING THERE. Because when he gave Sam and Dean the adress of where Cas would be he was SCARED AND ASHAMED. He made a point of saying they were 'betraying a friend' (shame) and that the friend was 'very powerful' (fear). So when he answered Cas' call later I can't help but think he must have at least suspected that Cas had found him out, and then when Cas talked about learning of a traitor... Bal could have run. But it's my headcanon that he knew he'd been discovered, knew Cas was going to misunderstand, but he stayed with Cas ANYWAY even though he was afraid, he stayed to let Cas dish out whatever punishment he thought he had to, even death, because in the end Castiel always had little old Bal, even if Cas didn't know it :(
It might not have been an epicly heroic death, like Gabriel's. But Balthazar wasn't a hero, and that was what I loved about him. He was self-serving and selfish, with just a SHRED of decency under it all. So it never bothered me that he went to Sam and Dean behind Cas' back. Balthazar learned about humanity and human ways in secret and through deception, so it makes sense to me that he would first and foremost use subterfuge as a means of helping save Castiel from himself and from taking on Purgatory - an honest confrontation with Cas wouldn't have seemed viable to Bal, who has always achieved his aims via sneakier means.
So, where was I? Yes, Bal's death wasn't heroic, but neither was his character, so while it was a painful and heartbreaking death, I don't think it was entirely unfitting...
The one thing to DO agree with you on though is - why no wings? That would have been the PERFECT conclusion to his death, the perfect poignant image to close his storyline on. Why weren't they there? ...is it because...because his storyline is NOT closed? I'm scared to think it cos it seems too much like wishful thinking but...?
no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 12:07 pm (UTC)He was the one to call Castiel when he learnt about the deal with Crowley. He didn't have to. He could just have run right there and then. He didn't. He could have told Castiel that he was with him, and then stay in the background and out of harms way as much as possible. Again, he didn't. He actively decided to "betray" Cas by going to Sam and Dean. And I'm convinced that he did it because he just couldn't stand by and watch Castiel destroy himself.
I don't think he lied when he said he was "in for a penny, in for a pound". He just wasn't in as in helping Castiel follow through with his plan. He was in as in staying at Castiel's side and protecting him in any way he still could, even if that meant betraying him.
I also agree that Balthazar probably knew that Castiel had found him out, and he still came because he would never leave Castiel, even if he had to pay for that with his life.
And yes, maybe you are right, maybe Castiel just was too far gone already. Maybe I just love this character and the relationship between my two angels too much. I just wanted something, you know. Just a small gesture, like some pain, or even just disappointment, from Castiel. Like Cas catching Balthazar's vessel and lowering him to the ground. Just something. But maybe I should just learn to make "Yes, I'll always have you" be enough.
And really, when I think about it, in the end it probably does come down to the wings for me. That is the one thing, that even after weeks, I still can't get over. Unless, of course, there is some significance to it, and we will see Bal again, or learn why there were no wings.
But for now, I just hate that they weren't there. One, because it feels a little like Balthazar wasn't seen as important enough to give him even this one second that is only about him. And two, I think I needed this short moment, this short tragic and yet so beautiful moment of seeing Balthazar's wings, for closure. And as long as I don't get this, I don't know how to deal with having lost him.
That may sound stupid, because it's such a short shot that changes nothing about what happened, but I'm seriously still struggling with this.
no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 02:35 pm (UTC)Yes. I would have preferred this too. Like with Rachael, who got a heartfelt 'I'm sorry' and was attacked in self-defense, not as a pre-meditated murder... When I think back over the episode, and the couple of times I've rewatched it, Castiel's killing of Bal is STILL the part that sticks the most, the part I have to psyche myself up for, the part I have the most trouble getting my mind and my heart around because... I get that he felt betrayed (it was a betrayal), I get that he wanted to distance himself from Bal, that he wanted to distance himself from everyone, Sam and Dean too, because he wanted to stop caring about them, because caring about them made their actions against him so painful... but did he have to go so far as KILLING Bal to achieve that distance?
He distanced himself from Sam by breaking his wall.
But Dean? All Cas did to keep Dean at a distance was TELL HIM - 'I don't care what you think.'
Gah. I'm rambling now and not sure where I'm going with this. Really, being the massive Dean/Cas shipper I am, I am probably glad, deep down, that Cas' affection for Dean was the hardest that Cas found to back away from but just... it still hurts that Cas seemed to be able to remove himself from his affection for Bal so completely :( My friend Kate argues this is because Cas never had any affection for Bal, and I guess there is an argument that the relationship was mostly one-sided on Bal's part. But Cas called him a 'good friend' and I think that meant something.
And I get what you mean about the wings being closure. Because EVERY major angel that's died has had a wing shot, which makes Balthazar an anomaly, something different, something new. It's hard NOT to see some meaning in that and while I was willing to write it off at first because I didn't want to get my hopes up, everytime I think of Bal this fact inevitably crops up until it reaches the point where it's the only thing I can think about, my mind chorusing over and over 'what does it mean what does it mean?' So, yeah, it's reached the point where even if the writers confirmed it was meaningless that there were no wings it will forever being meaningful to me!
Guess we'll be stupid and crazy over this together *clings*
no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 03:21 pm (UTC)Of course I didn't expect them to put as much focus on Castiel's relationship with Balthazar as they did on his relationship with Dean. But these two angels have this massive history together, and it just felt like that was all rendered insignificant.
And while I do agree that Balthazar cares more about Castiel than Castiel cares about Balthazar - I almost see it a bit like Castiel and Dean in reverse - the show did give me the impression that they were close, and that they had been close possibly since they were created. And then all of this was just ripped apart in one scene, when it could so easily have been saved by one little gesture. And I'm pretty sure that will always feel wrong to me.
Guess we'll be stupid and crazy over this together *clings*
It feels good to know that I'm not completely alone with this. *clings back*
no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 05:23 pm (UTC)See, I can see how you can take that away and take the ship there, but I never really saw Cas/Bal that way. Because if they were THAT close all along, had THAT much history, then how could Bal fake his death and leave Cas alone for so long? AND act so blaze about the whole thing in The Third Man (ie. I mourned your death - oh, yeah, sorry about that, I had to...)
So, yeah, I don't think it's as strong as Dean/Cas in reverse. Cas and Bal have a bond, but not one I'd call profound, you know?
But I sympathise with how it must feel for your interpretation :( *hug*
no subject
Date: 2011-08-07 05:44 am (UTC)