Supernatural
Aug. 5th, 2011 11:11 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gwaevalarinI think some people may be getting a wrong impression regarding my feelings towards Supernatural at the moment. I think some people may be getting a wrong impression regarding the entire Castiel (and Cas/Dean) part of the fandom, but I can only speak for myself, and I want to make a few things clear here:
Most importantly: I love this show.
I may be ranting and worrying and complaining a lot lately. I wouldn't do that if I didn't care.
Equally important: I still love Sam and Dean. Maybe not as much as I love Cas and Balthazar and Gabriel and (hate-love) Crowley, but of course I love them. I don't think it's possible to watch this show if you don't.
I also firmly believe that this show, in its core, has always been, will always be, and should always be about these two brothers. They are the heart and soul of Supernatural, and I don't think anyone could possibly doubt that.
BUT it can't be only about them. These two characters need other characters to interact with, to make their universe come to life. The two most important other characters - John and Mary aside - who form their family, are Bobby and Castiel. These two are, in my eyes, an integral part of the show. They are important to the boys and to the show. And they deserve to be treated that way.
I've read several times on tumblr how "the Castiel fandom wants this show to be just about him". This is complete and utter nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. What I want is the show to treat Castiel as the important character, and the important part of the boys' life that he has proven to be over the last three years. What I want is the show to acknowledge him as this important character and not use him as a cheap plot devise.
And here is another very important thing: The way Castiel's storyline is going right now - and no, we don't know for sure what is going to happen, but we are getting quite a few hints, and this theme already started very early in season 6 - doesn't only affect Cas, it also reflects on Sam and Dean.
Sam and Dean love each other more than anything and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are also both broken, and fucked up and co-dependent to a more than unhealthy degree, and again, I wouldn't really have it any other way, because that's what makes them interesting. But underneath all this, they have always been heroes in their own way. They made mistakes, they sometimes chose questionable paths, they lost people, but they cared. That's what always made them sympathetic characters, that they tried and that they cared. And then season 6 came along, and Cas was fighting his civil war in Heaven, trying to stop Raphael from restarting the Apocalypse - and yes, Cas too made mistakes and very questionable decisions, but he cared - and to me it felt like everytime Dean called him, the general tenor was:
Cas: "I'm fighting a civil war in Heaven trying to save what we - you and me - fought for."
Dean: "Fuck that, I don't care! There is something wrong with Sam. That's more important."
It's okay that Dean worried about Sam, and wanted him fixed more than anything. But he did it at the potential cost of the entire world burning, and he acted like that didn't matter - until it was too late. And that is not the Winchester boys I love. The Winchester boys I love would do everything for each other and sacrifice themselves for each other, but not at the cost of other people suffering the consequences.
Another thing I feel needs to be said: Characters, even important ones sometimes leave a story for the sake of the story and their own storyline. They might continue their own story somewhere else, in Supernatural it usually means that they die - and when I say "die" I mean the ones who die and do not just come back. And when I say "important characters", I mean the ones who have been in more than one episode, who stole our hearts, and left their signature on the show and Sam and Dean's life.
The important thing is how they leave.
Take Gabriel for example. I love him, and I hated to see him go. But I also feel that he got the ending he deserved. He stood up for what he believed in and died tragically but heroically, and true to his character. And while I miss him terribly, that is the reason why I don't think I want him to return. Because I'm afraid it would ruin his perfect exit. Same goes for Ellen and Jo.
Then there are character deaths that weren't exceptional, but still acceptable and true to the characters, like Bela - who, in case you don't know, I liked a lot - or Andy.
And then there are character deaths that are unnecessary and just nowhere near what the character deserved, like what happened to Balthazar. Had he died trying to save Cas, I would have been a sobbing mess, but it would have been okay in the end. I can even come up with scenarios where Castiel kills Balthazar that would have been acceptable. But not the way it was done, and certainly not without showing us his burnt wings, and without giving Castiel at least a moment to really grieve the death of the angel who was his best friend for millennia. Not without Balthazar's death having at least some impact on Castiel's storyline, and if it's only a moment of hesitation before opening Purgatory. Not like this.
And what I'm afraid of most right now, is that Castiel will leave the show in a way that is even worse than the way I lost Balthazar.
And last but not least: I pretty much only talk about how I want Castiel to be okay and Balthazar to come back because they are the characters I care most about, but I understand every other part of this fandom who is fighting for their beloved characters, whether I like them or not.
Even though I personally am in two minds about this, l feel for the Gabriel fandom who want their angel back - and who were given false hope at the beginning of season 6.
I feel most for those people in the fandom who love Adam. Sam and Dean might not have known him too long but he is their brother. And while family doesn't end with blood, blood is still family. Not to mention that he is an innocent who was dragged into this fight, and who is now locked into the deepest pits of hell with Lucifer and Michael, suffering the same way Sam did down there, but for so much longer. And Sam and Dean don't even so much as mention him, let alone try to save him, which reflects on them in a similar way their treatment of Cas and the situation in Heaven does.
I'm not fighting the fights for these characters, but what I won't ever do is tell the people who do that their favourite characters don't matter, or that they aren't "real fans". All these characters are important parts of Sam and Dean's world in their own way. And if there are people out there who love them then they have every right to fight for them just like I fight for my angels.
And here is another very important reason why - despite everything - I won't leave anytime soon: I love this fandom and I love the cast (and, most of the time, the crew)
This fandom, with all its wank and fighting, still is a big family. An most of the people I know support each other, and respect each other's opinion. There are quite a few black sheep, and that can hurt, but at the end of the day, most of you - and certainly everyone on my flist - are the most insane-in-a-good-way, creative, passionate, kind, unique bunch of people I've ever met. And even if the show should go downhill completely, I wouldn't leave because I don't want to leave YOU.
And this crazy, big family includes a lot of the actors, and quite a few of the writers, directors and other people working on the show. I don't think there is any other fandom where the actors are that involved and care that much. Be it Twitter, or cons, or insiders they send our way in interviews. They are just as completely insane as we are, and they never fail to brighten up my day.
I feel like I have found my home. Maybe we will move on one day, maybe we will go our separate ways at some point, maybe we will meet again in a different fandom. But for now, you are my family and this show is my home.
And this is exactly why I still love this show with all my heart. And this is equally why I worry and complain so much when I feel that things go terribly wrong. Because I care.
See a theme here?
ETA: Spoilers in the comments. You've been warned
Most importantly: I love this show.
I may be ranting and worrying and complaining a lot lately. I wouldn't do that if I didn't care.
Equally important: I still love Sam and Dean. Maybe not as much as I love Cas and Balthazar and Gabriel and (hate-love) Crowley, but of course I love them. I don't think it's possible to watch this show if you don't.
I also firmly believe that this show, in its core, has always been, will always be, and should always be about these two brothers. They are the heart and soul of Supernatural, and I don't think anyone could possibly doubt that.
BUT it can't be only about them. These two characters need other characters to interact with, to make their universe come to life. The two most important other characters - John and Mary aside - who form their family, are Bobby and Castiel. These two are, in my eyes, an integral part of the show. They are important to the boys and to the show. And they deserve to be treated that way.
I've read several times on tumblr how "the Castiel fandom wants this show to be just about him". This is complete and utter nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. What I want is the show to treat Castiel as the important character, and the important part of the boys' life that he has proven to be over the last three years. What I want is the show to acknowledge him as this important character and not use him as a cheap plot devise.
And here is another very important thing: The way Castiel's storyline is going right now - and no, we don't know for sure what is going to happen, but we are getting quite a few hints, and this theme already started very early in season 6 - doesn't only affect Cas, it also reflects on Sam and Dean.
Sam and Dean love each other more than anything and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are also both broken, and fucked up and co-dependent to a more than unhealthy degree, and again, I wouldn't really have it any other way, because that's what makes them interesting. But underneath all this, they have always been heroes in their own way. They made mistakes, they sometimes chose questionable paths, they lost people, but they cared. That's what always made them sympathetic characters, that they tried and that they cared. And then season 6 came along, and Cas was fighting his civil war in Heaven, trying to stop Raphael from restarting the Apocalypse - and yes, Cas too made mistakes and very questionable decisions, but he cared - and to me it felt like everytime Dean called him, the general tenor was:
Cas: "I'm fighting a civil war in Heaven trying to save what we - you and me - fought for."
Dean: "Fuck that, I don't care! There is something wrong with Sam. That's more important."
It's okay that Dean worried about Sam, and wanted him fixed more than anything. But he did it at the potential cost of the entire world burning, and he acted like that didn't matter - until it was too late. And that is not the Winchester boys I love. The Winchester boys I love would do everything for each other and sacrifice themselves for each other, but not at the cost of other people suffering the consequences.
Another thing I feel needs to be said: Characters, even important ones sometimes leave a story for the sake of the story and their own storyline. They might continue their own story somewhere else, in Supernatural it usually means that they die - and when I say "die" I mean the ones who die and do not just come back. And when I say "important characters", I mean the ones who have been in more than one episode, who stole our hearts, and left their signature on the show and Sam and Dean's life.
The important thing is how they leave.
Take Gabriel for example. I love him, and I hated to see him go. But I also feel that he got the ending he deserved. He stood up for what he believed in and died tragically but heroically, and true to his character. And while I miss him terribly, that is the reason why I don't think I want him to return. Because I'm afraid it would ruin his perfect exit. Same goes for Ellen and Jo.
Then there are character deaths that weren't exceptional, but still acceptable and true to the characters, like Bela - who, in case you don't know, I liked a lot - or Andy.
And then there are character deaths that are unnecessary and just nowhere near what the character deserved, like what happened to Balthazar. Had he died trying to save Cas, I would have been a sobbing mess, but it would have been okay in the end. I can even come up with scenarios where Castiel kills Balthazar that would have been acceptable. But not the way it was done, and certainly not without showing us his burnt wings, and without giving Castiel at least a moment to really grieve the death of the angel who was his best friend for millennia. Not without Balthazar's death having at least some impact on Castiel's storyline, and if it's only a moment of hesitation before opening Purgatory. Not like this.
And what I'm afraid of most right now, is that Castiel will leave the show in a way that is even worse than the way I lost Balthazar.
And last but not least: I pretty much only talk about how I want Castiel to be okay and Balthazar to come back because they are the characters I care most about, but I understand every other part of this fandom who is fighting for their beloved characters, whether I like them or not.
Even though I personally am in two minds about this, l feel for the Gabriel fandom who want their angel back - and who were given false hope at the beginning of season 6.
I feel most for those people in the fandom who love Adam. Sam and Dean might not have known him too long but he is their brother. And while family doesn't end with blood, blood is still family. Not to mention that he is an innocent who was dragged into this fight, and who is now locked into the deepest pits of hell with Lucifer and Michael, suffering the same way Sam did down there, but for so much longer. And Sam and Dean don't even so much as mention him, let alone try to save him, which reflects on them in a similar way their treatment of Cas and the situation in Heaven does.
I'm not fighting the fights for these characters, but what I won't ever do is tell the people who do that their favourite characters don't matter, or that they aren't "real fans". All these characters are important parts of Sam and Dean's world in their own way. And if there are people out there who love them then they have every right to fight for them just like I fight for my angels.
And here is another very important reason why - despite everything - I won't leave anytime soon: I love this fandom and I love the cast (and, most of the time, the crew)
This fandom, with all its wank and fighting, still is a big family. An most of the people I know support each other, and respect each other's opinion. There are quite a few black sheep, and that can hurt, but at the end of the day, most of you - and certainly everyone on my flist - are the most insane-in-a-good-way, creative, passionate, kind, unique bunch of people I've ever met. And even if the show should go downhill completely, I wouldn't leave because I don't want to leave YOU.
And this crazy, big family includes a lot of the actors, and quite a few of the writers, directors and other people working on the show. I don't think there is any other fandom where the actors are that involved and care that much. Be it Twitter, or cons, or insiders they send our way in interviews. They are just as completely insane as we are, and they never fail to brighten up my day.
I feel like I have found my home. Maybe we will move on one day, maybe we will go our separate ways at some point, maybe we will meet again in a different fandom. But for now, you are my family and this show is my home.
And this is exactly why I still love this show with all my heart. And this is equally why I worry and complain so much when I feel that things go terribly wrong. Because I care.
See a theme here?
ETA: Spoilers in the comments. You've been warned
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-08-05 10:36 am (UTC)He always wanted to be the big cheese, he always wanted power.
And as far as the apocolypse, well the boys had already been there done that. Why should they help the Angels yet again. Why can't he save his brother. Why should he and his brother live like this. He should fight for Sam, that is family that is also for him. Its not selfish, its the fight he should of been fighting imo.
Why should Dean fight in an angel civil war. What has that got to do with him. Can't the angels handle it for once without using humans to do it for them. Especially Sam and Dean who have been through enough. And then we find out that Castiel did this too both of the boys in his 'fight' to do what the boys have been fighting for the last 5 years.
Sam and Dean have a right to not fight someone elses war for a change. It would be horrible for him to ignore Sam for Castiels problem. Castiel was on a path to eat monster souls. That was his story now. He used the boys to work with Crowley, he lied to them, manipulated them, blamed Dean for nearly killing his brother just because he wanted his brother to have his soul back no matter what.
As much as you think that castiel is an integral part of the show, he isn't. He IS a plot device. He is there to helpo tell the Sam and Dean story and now this could be over. The show isn't about Castiel, its about how the boys are getting through this life of theres.
And its time to open up that world because if there is anything that is unhealthy and co-dependant it would have to be the realationship with Castiel.
This story didn't start as an angels story or anything to do with angels so it surely can go back to being about the boys and what their part in the mytharc is about. Personal to them. Not Castiel. The fact is that family is blood and the boys are soul mates and its unfair to try to take that away from them and make everyone family like the two of them are together.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2011-08-05 05:08 pm (UTC)That's one of the reasons why Castiel is such a great character. He has never been the prime focus; there has never been a season that revolves solely around him. The same can be said for Bobby. I don't understand the fans who say "Castiel's time has come because everyone in Supernatural dies eventually." I always sit there thinking, what about Bobby? Not that I'm encouraging Bobby's demise, but why are people so anxious to get Castiel off of Supernatural--who has only been there for 3 seasons--when we've practically known Bobby for about 6? It's pretty unjust to say that all characters on Supernatural have to die--except Sam and Dean--then completely ignore Bobby's presence. It's a convenient excuse in a way. Don't get me wrong, I love Bobby and I never want him to leave, but it's a pretty lame excuse to say, "all extraneous characters must die... except Bobby."
On that note, if all characters MUST die, why wasn't Castiel given a death that honored his character? He's been around just as long as Gabriel--who had a great death, worthy of his character--and he's probably been relevant for as long as Jo and Ellen, given that we met them in season 2 and I don't recall hearing back from them until season 5, and THEY have one of the most memorable deaths that I can recall. Everyone in Supernatural gets the death they deserve. Instead, it was decided that Castiel's character would be marred and destroyed to the (I'm assuming the hopeful) point that fans would hate him and actually WANT to see him die. I don't want Castiel to leave ever--nor should the show be just about Castiel--but if his time truly had come in the writers' eyes, then a fitting death would have been better. Why plan out an entire season around making a fan-favorite a bad guy--which completely negates all premises they set for said character in the past 2 years--when it would have been so much easier AND enjoyable for the Castiel fans (who do make up quite a number of fans of Supernatural) if he'd been given a death worthy of his character?
On a final note, because it's one of the comments I see ALL the time which pisses me off to no end, when has the show ever NOT been about Sam and Dean? Who are these people who say "now the show can FINALLY go back to being about Sam and Dean"? Last I checked, the show has only ever followed Sam and Dean. Yes, we had an episode that followed Bobby and Castiel in season 6, but other than that, all other side characters have been just that: side characters. I don't know where this premise has come about, but it seriously bothers me. I must be watching a different show than these people.
So to recap: You're awesome and you've explain a Castiel fan's mind frame beautifully! Thank you xD
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 09:57 am (UTC)I'll add a couple of cents though:
it felt like everytime Dean called him, the general tenor was:
Cas: "I'm fighting a civil war in Heaven trying to save what we - you and me - fought for."
Dean: "Fuck that, I don't care! There is something wrong with Sam. That's more important."
Yes, it did. It felt exactly like that. And that was such a horrible feeling that I spent most of my S06 energy trying to deny it because wtf Dean aren't you better than that by now? BUT, having looked over all of that, I'm starting to think Dean's seemingly callous attitude to Cas all season was a deliberate decision on the writers' part. It was them playing up the miscommuication and mixed signals between the two characters, which would ultimately push Castiel down his dark path in the finale. They were intentially showing the negative side to Dean's character and how his snark and inability to deal with or show his feelings can have painful consequences.
IMO, and it's been said before but I'm coming from a different angle this time, it's an arc similar to Dean and Sam's over S04-5. S04 was about showing how Sam and Dean had communication issues (among others) that ultimately pushed Sam into darkness, leading to S05 being about the two of them confronting those issues, learning to forgive each other (because yes, Sam starting the apocalyse, but Dean did stuff wrong too and Sam have to get over that) and establishing a stronger bond as a result.
SO. If we take it that Dean (and to a lessen extent Sam) and Castiel's S06 plot is, roughly, a similar beast to Sam and Dean's S04 one - S06 SHOULD LOGICALLY (AND EMOTIONALLY) MATCH UP IN SOME WAY TO SAM AND DEAN'S JOURNEY TOGETHER IN S05. Which means saving Cas. Which means forgiveness. Which means all of them coming to a better understanding of each other.
...whether the show will deliever this payoff...well. But THIS IS THE SET UP I'M SEEING. The set up they've spent all S06 providing.
I'm not asking them to spend the whole season on it like they did with Sam and Dean in S05. I just want the arc to BE THERE. Because if it is then for me all of S06 will have been worth it and it will be amazing, it will mean the boys' story with Castiel has truely been completed having evolved through a proper range of the emotional and narrative spectrum (because I can't understand the people who argue the angel storyline in the show has run its course, when it seems so very much incomplete to me at the moment!)
Not long now until we find out where the show's actually going anyway... *crosses fingers for Cas*
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Date: 2011-08-08 01:54 am (UTC)How did you like the Castiel/Ghostfacers episode? I was amused with Castiel's reactions because we really never got to see that mix of humor and frustration at once! Poor Cas! :D
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2011-08-09 02:29 am (UTC)This is my problem. This is the thing that bothers me the most. Yes, Supernatural is the Sam & Dean show, (my favorite episode is Mystery Spot after all) but that doesn't lessen the importance of Castiel. I mean Dean said it himself- they're Team Free Will. Dean, Sam, Bobby, and Castiel are a family. Yet in season 6 Castiel and Dean were both written out of character simply to serve the plot. This of course made the story feel forced and contrived because thematically Supernatural has always been a story about family. Castiel has always been an important and endearing character on the show- if he wasn't they would never have expanded Misha's role as they did. This show has evolved from being just the Sam & Dean show, and that's not a bad thing. Good stories progress, not stagnate.
What!? Seriously? Where in the world did they get that idea? How does, "Turning Cas into god doesn't ring true for the character" get interpreted as "Replace the show's focus on Sam & Dean with focus on Castiel"?
See for me the absent wings is such a small thing because the bigger (and more important mistake) was Cas killing Balty in the first place. Although I think Castiel had more profound bond with Dean at this point, I don't think he'd kill Balty simply because he worked with the Brothers Winchester. It seems so petty and vindictive, which Castiel isn't. It's the characterization that bothers me not that the TPTB omitted a wings shot. There are more serious story issues to worry about imho.
*shrugs shoulders* Usually when I'm this fed up with bad writing I give up on a series. I haven't this time because 1) I just started watching the show a year ago and 2) the series is way more thought provoking than it has any right to be. I dismissed this show as teeny-bopper garbage for the longest time, but a couple of my family members insisted that I give it a try. Now I love the characters, I love the themes, and I love the mythology. The writers have gold in their hands and I just don't want to see any potential wasted. I actually went so far to write a letter to Sera Gamble about the Godstiel plot to let her know why it's such a bad idea. You can see she thoughtfully considered my words, taking my reasoning into account [/sarcasm]. I'll keep watching it too though- Supernatural is bigger than any one character (even though the nerdy angel is my favorite).
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