See You In October

[gwaevalarin]

So, erm... I was keeping my Saturday free so I can write a massive Supernatural season finale review full of tears, or squee, or rage, or all of the above but... I'm stragenly underwhelmed. To me it feels like the entire episode was so focused on ther oh so surprising cliffhanger (not) that they kinda forgot to have a finale.

It's fine though, it's nice to go into the long hiatus a little more relaxed for a change - I don't think this has ever happened with Supernatural before - and the finale did one thing right: It brought us to an amazing starting point, full of potential, for Jeremy Carver to take over.

And there are still a few things I want to talk about:

"They're gone. The entire Garrison is dead. If there is anyone left at all, they are in hiding."
I had to stop the episode because I was missing the rest of the scene being too busy sobbing Inias's name. I'm not even kidding. This was the one scene that had me truly emotional. Because I lost another beloved character, this time with just one sentence and without as much as his name being mentioned (unless he is in hiding. Please, please, Inias, be in hiding). Because just when I thought he still had family, Castiel lost everyone. Yes, there are other Garrisons, but these were his closest brothers and sisters. Because Castiel obviously kept the connection up, probably found some reassurance in feeling his brothers, went looking for them when he couldn't hear them anymore, and found that they are all gone. Because Castiel can't even mourn them properly in his current state, so his grief just piles up with everything else he is still suppressing. You can see and hear how much it affects him even when he doesn't let the emotions reach the surface.
And because Show just throws this massive thing out there in a single line. It's just angels right. It's not like they matter...

"I can't help. You understand? I can't! I destroyed everything. And I will destroy everything again. Can we please just leave it at that."
I knew this moment from the promo already, so it didn't affect me quite as bad as it would have otherwise. I think this is exactly what Misha was talking about at AECon3 when he said that Castiel surpresses his pain and guilt because he can't deal with it. And I honestly don't know when Dean will learn when pressing on about it, and blaming him over and over, and telling him that it's his mess is not helping anyone.

"Nobody cares that you're broken."
This is right up there with 'I don't care what you call him just kill him now', and a few other things Dean has been throwing at Cas this season. There is being angry, and unable to just forgive - I get that - and there is downright cruel and... I don't even know what to call it. And this is the reason why "a note of forgiveness", like Cas puts it, just doesn't cut it and doesn't magically make everything okay again. It's a good start. But it isn't more than that, and it certainly isn't enough anymore. Not after everything Cas already put into trying to fix things and all the times Dean just threw it right back into his face, and used him, and then pushed him away again. It's Dean's turn, and I'm still waiting for something I can count as an apology from his side at the very least.
But yes, Cas helped on his own terms, that's important. Dean obviously did call him (when he was covered in bees) but he also let him go again. And Dean showed some... acceptance. So, yes, good path, Dean, but you still have a very, very long way to go.

Bobby... well, that was anticlimactic. But seeing how they burned the flask in the middle of the episode and then just moved on, and considering we didn't see Bobby's spirit burn, I have a feeling this wasn't the last we saw of him. Then again, that's what I thought when we didn't see Balthazar's wings. Weird though, that they seemed so certain that he'll just move on. That's not what I was getting from Tessa or his Reaper. They always made it sound more like: You don't go to Heaven right away, you never go.

Crowley: Can I just say that I love my demon when he outsmarts everyone? Finally it seems like he might be THE threat next season, because he was smart, and he was patient, and now it payed off. I kinda wanted to high five him at the end of the episode.

Baby: Did they bring her back just so Meg could drive her through a freaking sign-board? Not okay. She didn't look too damaged though.

The cliffhanger: Not much if a surprise, was it? I'm strangely unconcerned about Dean and Cas. Yes, there are tons of monster souls down there. It's dangerous and it's going to be exhausting. But Cas seems to be in full possession of his powers, and I'm sure even when he doesn't want to fight he still has both, a survival instinct and an insinct to keep his charge safe. I don't like that he ended up in such a mess again so soon, but I think he'll be able to manage. For the first time in a long time I really believe that there is a chance Castiel will be okay.
I'm just wondering what happens when you die in Purgatory?
I felt more for Sam, who doesn't know what exactly happened to Dean and Cas, and who is pretty much alone now, with all those Leviathans running wild and Crowley setting up to take over the world. I guess he can call Jodie and Garth. But that's about it, and it would mean dragging them into this. When Sera said that she wanted to isolate the boys, this is about what I expected.

Angels going to Purgatory when they die doesn't make sense to me, but with all the rumours about characters who may return next season, I'm starting to wonder if the writers will go there anyway. Bobby, too then, maybe. Vengeful spirits in Purgatory doesn't make less sense than angels at least. If anyone can make this work, it's Jeremy Carver. But I'm just... if everyone goes somewhere - Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - and we know where everyone ends up, then there truly is no death anymore on Supernatural. There is just getting stuck in extremely unpleasant places and hoping that someone out there cares enough to find a way to get you out (poor Adam...). I'm not sure that's very good for the show. But since we had to learn the hard way that there a way worse things than death, who knows?
And just the thought of Castiel finding Balthazar in Purgatory...what if Purgatory does to angels what Hell does to humans? Okay, now I'm worried. I don't think I want to think about this scenario too much.

Anyway, underwhelmed by the episode, but very much looking forward to what Jeremy Carver plans on doing with this, and very glad that they set it up for both Castiel and Crowley to be major players again next season.

Comments

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It's fine though, it's nice to go into the long hiatus a little more relaxed for a change - I don't think this has ever happened with Supernatural before - and the finale did one thing right: It brought us to an amazing starting point, full of potential, for Jeremy Carver to take over.

Exactly. Aside from some things, this finale was actually pretty relaxing and gave us something refreshing for a change. The cliffhanger wasn't enraging but rather reassuring that they are going into new territory with so much potential. And Jeremy Carver is taking over the show, a man who has a history of taking such opportunities to the next level with his writing and understanding the characters and the story. So I am hoping that the does take advantage of this opportunity and give us something epic.

It's a strange feeling really, not being angry at this show. We're left with that feeling of optimism and hope. Please don't let us down, Carver.

Because just when I thought he still had family, Castiel lost everyone. Yes, there are other Garrisons, but these were his closest brothers and sisters. Because Castiel obviously kept the connection up, probably found some reassurance in feeling his brothers, went looking for them when he couldn't hear them anymore, and found that they are all gone. Because Castiel can't even mourn them properly in his current state, so his grief just piles up with everything else he is still suppressing. You can see and hear how much it affects him even when he doesn't let the emotions reach the surface.

All of this.

This is something I'm hoping that next season touches on more properly, because I feel the show has pushed this very issue aside. To the Winchesters the angels have been nothing but trouble and have been messing with them since the start, but to Castiel they are his family. He has lost his family, he even killed his brothers and sisters in this war and none of this is even mentioned except in a dismissive manner by the show. I want them to really focus on the fact, because this has really fucked him up and is part of his major guilt.

And I honestly don't know when Dean will learn when pressing on about it, and blaming him over and over, and telling him that it's his mess is not helping anyone.

Exactly. And to me, this is like someone blaming someone else for not being "right in the head" and using a harsh way of getting them to "snap out of it" because it's their fault they're in that place to begin with. Like with depression: "nobody cares that you're sad just stop being such a downer for everyone else!" It's not helping, it's more damaging than people think and that's precisely what Dean is doing.

The thing is, Dean is also fucked up. He has a lot of issues himself (he's an alcoholic, has PTSD, abandonment issues, etc) and yet the show hasn't really dealt with those issues either.

I do agree that it's not enough with what we were given. It's not really "forgiveness" in a sense, but it is a step in the right direction. A direction I'm hoping Carver takes further next season. Them being stuck in Purgatory is a perfect place for them to really talk about these things (because one of the main issues this show has is the lack of communication, and what perfect way of getting more development and repairing their friendship is by talking about it truthfully and honestly?)

As a whole, what I got from the finale was: things are still fucked up, not everything is going to be magically resolved, but they are heading in the right direction and with Carver next season I'm hoping for them to move forward.

[gwaevalarin.livejournal.com]

And Jeremy Carver is taking over the show, a man who has a history of taking such opportunities to the next level with his writing and understanding the characters and the story. So I am hoping that the does take advantage of this opportunity and give us something epic.

I was always looking at the last few episodes of this season as nothing more than the set-up for season 8. And the only fear I had was that things would be too fucked up in the end. Or that Cas would be lost entirely. None of this has happened. Sera left Jeremy this amazing sand box to play with, and I that's all I was asking for. So while I may not be too impressed by the episode, I'm very content with where the show is right now.

It's a strange feeling to go into the hiatus feeling okay, even optimistic. I'm not entirely sure what to do with myself now, you sort of get used to the pain. But it's nice.

I really hope that Jeremy will in some way address Castiel losing his family. But he has always portrayed the angels as characters in their own right. So I'm very optimistic there too. I think there was a purpose too behind having the line that some of them might be in hiding. I think we may see some of them next year, and I belive that they will get the treatment they deserve.

Like with depression: "nobody cares that you're sad just stop being such a downer for everyone else!" It's not helping, it's more damaging than people think and that's precisely what Dean is doing.

YES! This! I know that Dean is broken too. But there are lines that you simply do not cross, and Dean has crossed them several times by now.

As a whole, what I got from the finale was: things are still fucked up, not everything is going to be magically resolved, but they are heading in the right direction and with Carver next season I'm hoping for them to move forward.

If they weren't fucked up at all anymore, there wouldn't be anything left to tell. I finally feel like they are fucked up in a way that can be fixed, though, eventually. And I have so much hope that we will finally start working through all these issues next season. And as painful as that will be, it's something to look forward too.

[shaitanah.livejournal.com]

There is being angry, and unable to just forgive - I get that - and there is downright cruel and... I don't even know what to call it. And this is the reason why "a note of forgiveness", like Cas puts it, just doesn't cut it and doesn't magically make everything okay again. Exactly! Not to mention I didn't really hear any notes of forgiveness. And I don't even want Dean to forgive Cas; I want him to apologize and admit that Cas isn't the only one who screwed up! They share equal blame if you ask me, so why is Cas taking all of it and Dean acting oh so righteous again? It's freaking annoying!
And what kind of "forgiveness" is that when Dean pretty much says: Oh, we're gonna die tomorrow and I could use your help, so yeah, whatever, we're cool, dude. That's Dean being a possessive bastard again who acts like as is a weapon. So much for family.
I'm excited about the prospect of having more Crowley! He's the one truly badass thing left on this show (except Cas who is somehow badass even in his crazy state))). And go Carver! Fix Gamble's mess))

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

And I don't even want Dean to forgive Cas; I want him to apologize and admit that Cas isn't the only one who screwed up! They share equal blame if you ask me, so why is Cas taking all of it and Dean acting oh so righteous again? It's freaking annoying!

Amen to all of this.

I have hated the way the show has written Dean as being this self-righteous and acting like he and Sam are morally superior and that nothing is their fault. Obviously they're screwed up but at the same time they act like Castiel did something so reprehensible and repulsive that he could never be forgiven again. Like they've never made mistakes or made deals with the devil to save the freaking world. It is irresponsible of the show to paint the Winchesters as that self-righteous and having Castiel take the blame for everything.

Castiel has always apologized, he's always sacrificed, he has rebelled and killed his own kin to save the brothers and humanity and they always point the finger at him. Enough is enough. Dean and Sam should start taking responsibility of their own faults instead of scapegoating because it's easier for them. They've all made mistakes, and the only way of moving forward is to admit to that and then forgive each other and move on.

Really, it's not that hard.

It's also interesting because there have been points in the show where it's clear they are pointing out the flaws of the Winchesters and how they've treated Castiel (7.21 most notably) but it almost seems like it's a throwaway thing. I mean, they hardly have characters dealing with it and that's something holding back character development, imo. It's good to have characters who are flawed, but have them acknowledge these flaws and actually evolve instead of remaining the same.

(lol wow long comment is long, sorry about that. I just have loads of feelings on this very topic, something I'm hoping Carver addresses more next season because seriously, enough is enough already)

[gwaevalarin.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I heard forgiveness either, but I did hear a small hint of "I don't want to lose you." in a way that for the first time in a long time made me believe that Dean is talking about Cas, not just his powers.
But there is still too much selfishness in this. Or like you say: Possessiveness. It's still all about what Dean wants, and not at all about what Cas wants and needs.

And I don't even want Dean to forgive Cas; I want him to apologize and admit that Cas isn't the only one who screwed up! They share equal blame if you ask me, so why is Cas taking all of it and Dean acting oh so righteous again? It's freaking annoying!

Yes, yes, yes! That part is still missing entirely, and it is so important. And I know I won't be able to forgive Dean before he doesn't admit to his own mistakes, and apologises to Cas in one way or another.
I need Dean to be truly selfless around the people he loves for a change.

Yay for Crowley! As bad as it is for the world, he earned this victory.

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

Bobby... well, that was anticlimactic.

LOL, what I said exactly! :)

seeing how they burned the flask in the middle of the episode and then just moved on, and considering we didn't see Bobby's spirit burn

Yeah, there's that. Bobby seemed to just disappear into the light, like John did, like Molly from "Roadkill" did. No violent "burning up" like the fate most ghosts meet on Show. His transition was peaceful.

I have a feeling this wasn't the last we saw of him.

We shall see. :)

Crowley was bloody AWESOME, wasn't he? Double- and triple- and quadruple- crossing everybody in sight. Sneaky bugger.

I'm not happy about Baby's fate, though. And when Dean gets back, he's gonna be pissed.

I hope Meg escapes, because I was starting to like her . . . but at the same time, I hope Crowley gets some licks in, because nobody drives Baby through a damn sign and gets away with it. ;D

And poor Sam, left alone with NO one. :(

I'm curious, though. The one thing you didn't mention was the final event of the episode -- Castiel disappearing and leaving Dean all alone and surrounded by beasties intent on ripping him apart. I'm torn as to whether he disappeared like that because he really, REALLY doesn't like fighting/confrontation, to the point of abandoning Dean to his fate . . . whether angels can't exist in Purgatory, and he was yanked back to his starting point . . . or whether something just grabbed him.

I would love to hear your opinion on that disappearing act of his. ;)

[gwaevalarin.livejournal.com]

I'm not happy about Baby's fate, though. And when Dean gets back, he's gonna be pissed.

Is there a rule or something that states that she has to get hurt in every season finale? Poor Baby.

I'm curious, though. The one thing you didn't mention was the final event of the episode -- Castiel disappearing and leaving Dean all alone and surrounded by beasties intent on ripping him apart.

I didn't even worry too much about that because I think the answer may be quite simple: I think he just went to scout the area. Figure out where the monsters are, if there is a place they can hide, or that is at least easy to hold. Castiel may be in a fragile state right now, and not willing or able to think about fighting, but he has always been a good strategiest and from we saw in this episode his instinct takes over when he or someone he cares about is in actual danger.
I very highly doubt that he'll just leave Dean behind. Remember when Dean told him that he'll probably die tomorrow, and Cas said he'd go with him? And how Cas wasn't in the least bit surprised that they ended up in Purgatory? I think Cas knew very early that this would most likely happen, and he made the (more or less) conscious decision to stay with Dean and protect him.
I may be wrong, of course. Maybe he did shy away from the conflict. But then he will quickly figure out that a) there is nowhere to run to in Purgatory, and b) that he left Dean in danger, and he will be back very quickly.

If someone or some force had yanked him away, I expect we would have heard some sound of struggle or a shout of warning from Cas or something.
I don't know, for some reason I'm not too worried about this.

[raths-kitten.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't be surprised to find Bobby in purgatory. Along with Mary and maybe Gabriel, because he wasn't a normal archangel but sorta transformed to pagan god, in a way that it might make slight sense to find him there. I doubt there'll be any other angels though. From all I gathered so far, they just vanish.

I wonder though, do leviathans go back to purgatory after they die? So we'll see Dick again?

I'm with you though. This was a kinda lame finale. WTF with Bobby? I assume they just didn't have the budget to show him burn and fade though.

I loved all the scenes with Cas. How he made them sandwiches and killed a pig for it! This Cas killed a pig! The one so concerned about monkeys and dogs and bees. It must have torn him up to kill a being.

And when he was watching them burn the flask. Awwww. And then he just knew he'd end up in purgatory with Dean and he chose to go with him, to protect him. God. And I can just imagine the next scene. Dean yelling at him for popping off for a few minutes when he probably just went to scoot out the place, get help, try and find a way to get Dean back. Dean really doesn't deserve him anymore.

[gwaevalarin.livejournal.com]

Pagan gods shouldn't be in Purgatory either, should they? They are not children of Eve. But the writers probably don't care too much about logic. If they want to bring angels back, and Purgatory feels like a good way to do so, they'll just twist the mythology. After all, it was never actually stated that angels DON'T go to Purgatory.

I wonder though, do leviathans go back to purgatory after they die? So we'll see Dick again?
Apparently. At least that's what Cas hints when he tries to explain why they are in Purgatory: "And where would he [Dick] go in death?"

I'm not sure it was too difficult for Cas to kill the pig because its death wasn't pointless?

Cas was amazing in this episode, and I really think he's getting better and may actually be okay again, eventually. But yeah, Dean is still acting like an ungrateful douche and I am so tired of it. Lucky him that Cas loves him enough to stay by his side anyway.

[littlehollyleaf.livejournal.com]

Not much to add. I'd defend Dean but... yeah, he pissed me off this episode too because he STILL STILL DOESN'T GET CAS. I think he did start to come round, but he's not there yet.

Tracy said a simple thing in her review that made me feel a little better about Dean though actually - she said the 'no one cares you're broken' and later Dean saying, somewhat frustratedly 'you don't wanna throw yourself into the jaws of death, that's fine...' was Dean mistaking Cas' 'I don't want to fight' as COWARDESS. Which, as we all know because it's PAINFULLY OBVIOUS, is not true. It wasn't until Cas confessed about being 'bad luck' that Dean started to understand Cas was being SELFLESS in his not fighting, because he thought he'd make things worse. Dean finally saw how Cas had descended to a bitter lack of self-worth and THAT was what was driving him. Something Dean finally recognised and understood, because as he says they are ALL 'cursed,' Dean understands that feeling of not being good enough.

But yeah. Dean's a dick. I'm sorry about that. I still hope for better and think, with Cas and Dean being TOGETHER now, there is scope for Dean to grow next season... but I've been thinking that sicne S04 so...

One other thing:

Weird though, that they seemed so certain that he'll just move on.

I thought the idea was that they DIDN'T know Bobby would move on? They didn't in fact know WHAT would happen to him, just that whatever it was was better than him sticking around to turn vengeful. That's what the ghost Mrs. Robinson says in the ghost episode - if burning her bones means that's it, there's nothing for her after, then she was ok with nothing? That's my assumption.

As to the finale being underwhelming - eh. I touch on this in my review. Basically, I never expect finales to WOW. They are just another episode that happens to come at the end of a season. It continued the story, that's all that mattered to me. I was prepared for an easy fix with the levithan plot, considering it had been so underwhleming all season. It was hardly going to get new and fresh right at the end.

INIAS :( i asked misha if he was still alive at A8 (or rather I BEGGED him 'please please please tell me he isn't dead please!') But Misha doesn't know, of course. He is alive in my mind. there may even be fic...

[gwaevalarin.livejournal.com]

But yeah. Dean's a dick. I'm sorry about that. I still hope for better and think, with Cas and Dean being TOGETHER now, there is scope for Dean to grow next season... but I've been thinking that sicne S04 so...

I very much hope so too, and the Purgatory storyline is perfect for that. I think it's a good storyline for everyone involved, and I hope that they'll all come out stronger and as a proper team again. The only change in the set-up I personally might have preferred is having Cas and SAM end up in Purgatory together so we can finally see their friendship explored properly. But I guess Cas and Dean need this, and as much as I've grown to dislike Dean in the course of the last two years, I'm still very willing to forgive him if he just finally comes around. I see an actual chance for that now.

I thought the idea was that they DIDN'T know Bobby would move on? They didn't in fact know WHAT would happen to him, just that whatever it was was better than him sticking around to turn vengeful.

I can't remember exactly, but wasn't there something about how they'd see each other again, and "make it later rather than sooner"? Then again, that may just be the Winchester equivalent of "He's in a better place now."

Yeah, I guess the finale just continued what was the problem wiht the entire season.
Don't read underwhelming as disappointing though. I'm okay with the finale, it's just weird not to be emotional about it. But compared to the season 6 finale, which was definitely emotional and anything but underwhelming, I prefer this one by miles.
The most important thing for me was that the finale brings the show to a point from where I can truly believe it can get back on track. It did that perfectly.

INIAS :( i asked misha if he was still alive at A8 (or rather I BEGGED him 'please please please tell me he isn't dead please!') But Misha doesn't know, of course. He is alive in my mind. there may even be fic...

He is alive as long as Show doesn't state that he is definitely dead, and there should totally be fic. :)
Even though Misha doesn't know, it's good that you brought Inias up, so someone on the show is aware that there are people who care about him. Doesn't mean they'll bring him back, but they always might.

[littlehollyleaf.livejournal.com]

This is what Bobby says before they burn him -

Here's to... running into you guys on the other side. Only... not too soon. All right?

I took this to be a 'well, we don't know what's going to happen to me, but hopefully I'll go Up and I'll see you there later.' That's why there's a 'here's to...' - meaning 'here's hoping...'

I don't think there's enough certainty about it for them to have known for sure, or been saying for sure, that Bobby was definitely going to Heaven.

*shrug*