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gwaevalarin) wrote2013-03-21 03:40 pm
gwaevalarin) wrote2013-03-21 03:40 pm
If you want something done right...
Castiel and Naomi
Oh, Naomi, how can you be so right and so, so wrong at the same time?
I'm sort of liveblogging this part, so I may ask questions that get answered later:
Naomi has a training centre? I wonder if it is part of the super secret part of Heaven, and/or if it is where all angels are/used to be trained when the need arises.
Also, her "Everything is back in order." has me even more convinced that she basically wants Heaven to go back to the way it used to be before the war. Oh, honey. I understand. But not like this.
Cas is pretty much fully aware of (most of) what is going on whenever he is in Naomi's office, right? At least the part where she gives him orders? Yet still he actually asks her what she wants him to say to the Winchesters.
I think I've talked about this before: Whenever Castiel is in Naomi's office, the situation doesn't seem as dark and threatening as it very obviously is.
Naomi is controlling him, she takes his agency away, and that is utterly and entirely unacceptable.
But when I look at their scenes together out of context, when I look at how Castiel gives his input, and how Naomi listens, even though she will always make the final decision. When he asks her if he has to kill Meg, and obviously argues his case at least partly because he doesn't want to for personal reasons.
It feels... honest. Though as soon as he leaves, it's obviously not. It's just getting easy to forget because there isn't even much of a visible sign anymore that he forgets. I'm so conflicted about this.
Another thing is that Castiel almost reminds me of his season 4 self, and I consider that a good thing at this point. When the demon comments that she thought angels were supposed to be the good cops, I half expected him to reply with something along the lines of: "Read the Bible. Angels are warriors of God. I'm a soldier."
My favourite moment is probably the short look that passes between Castiel and Naomi during the interrogation, when they realise their lie will be uncovered. I don't think you understand how much I wish that Cas worked for her by his own free choice. Why could you not give him that choice, Naomi? Why can't the circumstances be different? They could make such a fantastic team. I want to know Naomi's reasons. I want to know why she is so convinced that she has to choose this path.
I'm a little confused: When they found the crypt, Castiel went to Naomi to tell her, she didn't bring him to her. How did he decide that if he doesn't even know she exists when he's not there? And again, it feels more like a working together, than like Naomi is forcing him.
Castiel's request that Dean hand him the angel tablet - the tablet about him and his siblings, that cam do God knows what to them - so he can take it to Heaven is entirely reasonable. This tablet should be theirs and no one elses. And so is Naomi's fear. And her reasons. Excuse you, but she is actually trying to protect her home and her family against a threat thay may quite possibly mean their total destruction. On this, I'm completely on her side. I don't care if I'm not supposed to.
It's starting to become perfectly clear to me now, too, what and why she did what she did to Castiel. In a way, she only wanted him free of the Winchesters, and back home. And I understand. And yes, I even agree. Not like this, not with her methods. Still, now more than ever: I'm on your side, Naomi. I finally want him free of them too. But there has to be another way to do this. A better way. Let's find a better way, okay? Let's not give up on him.
I'm sorry, how am I supposed to feel about all this, when, despite everything, all I see is Naomi treating Castiel better, and valuing his opinion higher than the Winchesters have in a very long time? In her own, misguided way, she actually cares about him, not his use.
It's a relief when Castiel says that he doesn't only need to protect the tablet from Naomi but also from Dean. Because yes, that is something you most defintely should if you still want a home and a family to return to some day.
I don't think protecting it from Naomi is necessary. Protecting himself from her, yes. Protecting the tablet, no. Her scene with Crowley makes it clear that protecting it - mostly from him - is what she wants. It's Heaven vs. Hell once again, and Heaven is weakend. And that Naomi and Crowley may have a history doesn't make her more untrustworthy and shady to me, sorry. Also, see Naomi, you now have Castiel as the guardian of the tablet, and you didn't exactly have to force him to take that job. Can you learn from that, please?
I like the very last scene. Naomi seems disappointed, almost hurt. That's good. She needs to realise her mistakes. Because I believe if she truly does understand where she went wrong, and learns from it, she could actually turn into a good leader. And Cas takes his own path, protecting not just a stone, but his home. There is still hope for Heaven. And the names of Heaven's hope are both, Castiel and Naomi.
Castiel and Meg
Cas and Meg romantically still doesn't make much sense to me, and after 7x17/7x21 I don't think I could ever be entirely comfortable with it - though this episode kinda convinced me that she didn't take advantage of him when he was helpless, and that's certainly a relief. But it wasn't as OOC and pointless this episode as it was in Caged Heat. They do have a history now, after all. And they were actually kind of cure together. I also guess, it at least makes some sense considering that, when he had and still has no one left, she was at least there. She was the only one who did not just leave him behind, and while I don't believe that there are any actual deeper feelings there, I can believe that Cas feels at least grateful. And most importantly, she put a hint of a smile on his face, because she actually treats him like a person. I can hardly remember the last time I've seen Castiel with something close to a genuine smile. So, considering it's in the past now anyway, and I don't have to worry about any possible issues, I'll take it.
Meg
Another character needlessly screwed over and killed.
I never actually 'liked' Meg, but I respected her. She was a survivor. And though she may have been evil to the core, she never claimed to be anything else. And that's why I have issues with the way she went out. Her sacrifice wasn't necessary. Some characters don't need to be redeemed. Some characters don't need to show a selfless moment to be good characters. I respected her, because she always was her smarky, selfish, demonic self. And now the show took that away from her in her last moment. She didn't deserve that.
She was also the one recurring character who managed to survive from season 1 all the way to season 8, and I realise now, that I wanted her to make it to the end of the show, and carry on beyond that. Survive, be selfish, only look out for herself. Because that was who she was, and it was okay for her to be that way.
And that's the way I prefer to remember her, and I think that Meg I might actually miss.
Edit: Crowley mentions his and Naomi's time in Mesopotamia. Crowley died in the late 1600s. Might this be the season when we find out that Crowley is a lot older than we thought? I'll just say fallen angel theory.
Oh, Naomi, how can you be so right and so, so wrong at the same time?
I'm sort of liveblogging this part, so I may ask questions that get answered later:
Naomi has a training centre? I wonder if it is part of the super secret part of Heaven, and/or if it is where all angels are/used to be trained when the need arises.
Also, her "Everything is back in order." has me even more convinced that she basically wants Heaven to go back to the way it used to be before the war. Oh, honey. I understand. But not like this.
Cas is pretty much fully aware of (most of) what is going on whenever he is in Naomi's office, right? At least the part where she gives him orders? Yet still he actually asks her what she wants him to say to the Winchesters.
I think I've talked about this before: Whenever Castiel is in Naomi's office, the situation doesn't seem as dark and threatening as it very obviously is.
Naomi is controlling him, she takes his agency away, and that is utterly and entirely unacceptable.
But when I look at their scenes together out of context, when I look at how Castiel gives his input, and how Naomi listens, even though she will always make the final decision. When he asks her if he has to kill Meg, and obviously argues his case at least partly because he doesn't want to for personal reasons.
It feels... honest. Though as soon as he leaves, it's obviously not. It's just getting easy to forget because there isn't even much of a visible sign anymore that he forgets. I'm so conflicted about this.
Another thing is that Castiel almost reminds me of his season 4 self, and I consider that a good thing at this point. When the demon comments that she thought angels were supposed to be the good cops, I half expected him to reply with something along the lines of: "Read the Bible. Angels are warriors of God. I'm a soldier."
My favourite moment is probably the short look that passes between Castiel and Naomi during the interrogation, when they realise their lie will be uncovered. I don't think you understand how much I wish that Cas worked for her by his own free choice. Why could you not give him that choice, Naomi? Why can't the circumstances be different? They could make such a fantastic team. I want to know Naomi's reasons. I want to know why she is so convinced that she has to choose this path.
I'm a little confused: When they found the crypt, Castiel went to Naomi to tell her, she didn't bring him to her. How did he decide that if he doesn't even know she exists when he's not there? And again, it feels more like a working together, than like Naomi is forcing him.
Castiel's request that Dean hand him the angel tablet - the tablet about him and his siblings, that cam do God knows what to them - so he can take it to Heaven is entirely reasonable. This tablet should be theirs and no one elses. And so is Naomi's fear. And her reasons. Excuse you, but she is actually trying to protect her home and her family against a threat thay may quite possibly mean their total destruction. On this, I'm completely on her side. I don't care if I'm not supposed to.
It's starting to become perfectly clear to me now, too, what and why she did what she did to Castiel. In a way, she only wanted him free of the Winchesters, and back home. And I understand. And yes, I even agree. Not like this, not with her methods. Still, now more than ever: I'm on your side, Naomi. I finally want him free of them too. But there has to be another way to do this. A better way. Let's find a better way, okay? Let's not give up on him.
I'm sorry, how am I supposed to feel about all this, when, despite everything, all I see is Naomi treating Castiel better, and valuing his opinion higher than the Winchesters have in a very long time? In her own, misguided way, she actually cares about him, not his use.
It's a relief when Castiel says that he doesn't only need to protect the tablet from Naomi but also from Dean. Because yes, that is something you most defintely should if you still want a home and a family to return to some day.
I don't think protecting it from Naomi is necessary. Protecting himself from her, yes. Protecting the tablet, no. Her scene with Crowley makes it clear that protecting it - mostly from him - is what she wants. It's Heaven vs. Hell once again, and Heaven is weakend. And that Naomi and Crowley may have a history doesn't make her more untrustworthy and shady to me, sorry. Also, see Naomi, you now have Castiel as the guardian of the tablet, and you didn't exactly have to force him to take that job. Can you learn from that, please?
I like the very last scene. Naomi seems disappointed, almost hurt. That's good. She needs to realise her mistakes. Because I believe if she truly does understand where she went wrong, and learns from it, she could actually turn into a good leader. And Cas takes his own path, protecting not just a stone, but his home. There is still hope for Heaven. And the names of Heaven's hope are both, Castiel and Naomi.
Castiel and Meg
Cas and Meg romantically still doesn't make much sense to me, and after 7x17/7x21 I don't think I could ever be entirely comfortable with it - though this episode kinda convinced me that she didn't take advantage of him when he was helpless, and that's certainly a relief. But it wasn't as OOC and pointless this episode as it was in Caged Heat. They do have a history now, after all. And they were actually kind of cure together. I also guess, it at least makes some sense considering that, when he had and still has no one left, she was at least there. She was the only one who did not just leave him behind, and while I don't believe that there are any actual deeper feelings there, I can believe that Cas feels at least grateful. And most importantly, she put a hint of a smile on his face, because she actually treats him like a person. I can hardly remember the last time I've seen Castiel with something close to a genuine smile. So, considering it's in the past now anyway, and I don't have to worry about any possible issues, I'll take it.
Meg
Another character needlessly screwed over and killed.
I never actually 'liked' Meg, but I respected her. She was a survivor. And though she may have been evil to the core, she never claimed to be anything else. And that's why I have issues with the way she went out. Her sacrifice wasn't necessary. Some characters don't need to be redeemed. Some characters don't need to show a selfless moment to be good characters. I respected her, because she always was her smarky, selfish, demonic self. And now the show took that away from her in her last moment. She didn't deserve that.
She was also the one recurring character who managed to survive from season 1 all the way to season 8, and I realise now, that I wanted her to make it to the end of the show, and carry on beyond that. Survive, be selfish, only look out for herself. Because that was who she was, and it was okay for her to be that way.
And that's the way I prefer to remember her, and I think that Meg I might actually miss.
Edit: Crowley mentions his and Naomi's time in Mesopotamia. Crowley died in the late 1600s. Might this be the season when we find out that Crowley is a lot older than we thought? I'll just say fallen angel theory.
no subject
no subject
Btw., I'll see you in a few weeks, right?
no subject
yes you will :)
no subject
Castiel's request that Dean hand him the angel tablet - the tablet about him and his siblings, that cam do God knows what to them - so he can take it to Heaven is entirely reasonable. This tablet should be theirs and no one elses. And so is Naomi's fear. And her reasons. Excuse you, but she is actually trying to protect her home and her family against a threat thay may quite possibly mean their total destruction. On this, I'm completely on her side. I don't care if I'm not supposed to.
I'm sure you know how I feel about this ad nauseum by now, but~ That's what pisses me off so much with the situation because the angels wanting the tablet is completely reasonable and justifiable. If that tablet ever falls into the wrong hands (and there are many), it could trap them and lock them all away in Heaven forever or destroy them or who knows what. Seriously. They have every right to go after that tablet and to want take it back to Heaven and to protect it. And yet... what? Despite all of that I'm supposed to see them as the villains in the situation? Just because Naomi's been using less than idealistic means to achieve her ends? Sry, but no. Especially considering the things the Winchesters've done to get what they want. Not to mention how Jared's recently said he absolutely thought the boys would sacrifice Cas to get rid of the angels...
I do, however, think the tablet needs to be kept from Naomi though. At least at present, anyway, because while I fully believe that all she wants at the end of the day is to protect Heaven and keep her family safe, ironically that's what ends up being the problem. Because if that tablet in any way could give her the means to completely and absolutely restore Heaven to the way she wants it to be (order and obedience but basically no free will), then yeah. She obviously shouldn't be in possession of that tablet.
And lol basically just IA with everything else you said.
(Also just with Crowley. Srsly. Who the fuck is he. How did he know Samandriel? How did he know Naomi? Someone both Cas and Samandriel weren't even consciously aware of for the most part?)
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And yes, it doesn't seem to be constructed by a human soul. Unless the soul is always hanging around somehwere else. That's strange. Even Raphael, an archangel, had to use a human soul's Heaven. So is Naomi even higher ranking? Are we now starting to learn about Principalities, Powers, Virtues etc? But then Cas called himself a Seraph earlier this season, so that doesn't really work out. Idk, Naomi is Metatron after all (or this is his office and she has been using it since he left)?
I'm sure you know how I feel about this ad nauseum by now, but~ That's
what pisses me off so much with the situation because the angels wanting
the tablet is completely reasonable and justifiable. If that
tablet ever falls into the wrong hands (and there are many), it
could trap them and lock them all away in Heaven forever or destroy them
or who knows what. Seriously. They have every right to go after
that tablet and to want take it back to Heaven and to protect it. And
yet... what? Despite all of that I'm supposed to see them as the villains
in the situation? Just because Naomi's been using less than idealistic
means to achieve her ends? Sry, but no. Especially considering the things
the Winchesters've done to get what they want. Not to mention how
Jared's recently said he absolutely thought the boys would sacrifice Cas
to get rid of the angels...
Yes, exactly. So why should Cas give the tablet to Dean? It's his much more than it is Dean's. If you have an angel on your "team" (hahahahahaha... yeah, not really on the same team ever) and you have an angel tablet that is so important to him and his family, why the hell would you expect him to hand it over to you and let you make all the decisions what's to happen with it? Even if Dean were trustworthy, it should still be Castiel's decision. It's his FAMILY. That's what this show supposedly is about, right?
You're right about Naomi and the tablet. She probably shouldn't have it right now. I guess I'd just rather see it in her hands than the Winchesters'. But it's clearly safest where it is right now, with Castiel.
I still can't get over the fact that he basically said "Fuck you, Dean. I don't trust you." and left them both standing there. That the show allowed him to choose his family over the Winchesters. And that he is now making his own decisions, based on what is best for himself and his family. I don't think I'll get over that anytime soon.
I love that they are building a new mystery around Crowley. I've always wanted him to be a fallen angel, it has always been my headcanon, and now that might actually happen in canon. What if he IS Metatron, though? We only know Metatron disappeared right? Maybe he disappeared to that secret part of Heaven, and then in the 1600s said screw it and fell, and well, we know the rest of his story.
Also, haha, but that would mean that you could argue whether Cas actually ever worked with a demon in the strictest sense if the word.
no subject
Hmm... Do you think it could be possible that Naomi's simply done away with that concept of Heaven altogether? Sort of like how Crowley completely restructured Hell after he became king? Because I really do wonder why the only parts of Heaven we've seen so far this season have been so... sterile and soulless. Literally. Though it could be like you said too and maybe Naomi's just taken over Metatron's former office. (Ooh, I also just thought of this though! What if Naomi's occupying God's old office? That would also work with her having said that only a few angels have been to that part of Heaven.)
Ugh, seriously. I also just rly can't with Dean's actual reaction here because it really is like none of that factored into the equation at all. Like that the tablet is about the angels--Cas's family--and that they do have a right to it and to protect it and everything? Ahaha, no, they're taking it to Kevin and that's that. Urgh.
Oh, I totally feel you there! I'd much rather have the tablet in Naomi's hands than the Winchesters. But yeah, right now it's probably safest in Cas's. (Ugh, I just seriously wish Naomi would realize how wrong her methods are and that they aren't the right way because if she did, then I don't think Cas would have any probably handing it over to her and it'd be safe in Heaven. Maybe even Cas too.)
I can't either! Plus I also really like how Cas tells Naomi that he can reason with Dean yet at the end of the scene, he doesn't do that at all and instead just leaves with the tablet. It's like... Cas says that but his actions show he knows that's not really true.
negl, I feel like he's got to be Metatron. That's basically my headcanon right now.